By: Vanessa Collette, GoldSeek.com TV
Taped on-location in Spokane, Washington at the 2013 Silver Summit (October 25, 2013)
15 years of facts add up to same thing: gold manipulation!
Bill Murphy, chairman of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee, sits down for a powerful one-on-one with Cambridge House Live's Vanessa Collette at Silver Summit 2013 in Spokane, Washington. She presses hard for examples of gold manipulation and he lays out credible evidence any investor would be interested in knowing about.
Vanessa Collette: Welcome to Cambridge House Live. I’m here at the 11th Annual Silver Summit in Spokane, Washington. I’m here with Bill Murphy, Chairman of the Gold Anti Trust Action Committee and a financial commentator on LeMetropoleCafé.com – welcome David, great to have you here with us again.
Bill Murphy: Good to see you again.
VC: Bill, what’s happening with the gold price today?
BM: Well today it’s flat and of course one of the things that GATA always gets into – we talk about the gold cartel – they never allow any action on the upside. You have a big day – next day nothing... Big day- next day nothing [laughs], another big day – especially in the past week, nothing. And this is what they do – they don’t allow any excitement and today’s just typical of the way they operate. Once you have a really good day, and people are really looking to go, they never allow it to go like any other market, to keep going. So today is a perfect example [referring to October 25, 2013].
VC: And why is that? Why are they controlling it so tightly?
BM: Well basically, as I mentioned, it’s really to keep excitement from building in the market. And a good way to follow it is the more bullish the news a lot of times in the gold market, you’ll see it maybe go up for a little bit.. and then it tanks. They have certain ways that they attack the market, whether it’s these flash crash attacks that have been happening, you know, for the last 6 months and so on, and certain things that we follow on my website, and just document how they operate, and manipulate the market.
VC: So you mentioned the ‘flash crashes’, what are some of the other ways that they intervene with the gold price?
BM: Well, one of the times that many people remember was in mid-April last year, when 100 tons hit the market in 10 minutes, but no one was around, and then on a Friday afternoon, another 100 tons hit the market or something like that, I think it was a total of over 200 tons, in a matter of minutes. And the gold price just COLLAPSED, it was what I call, a terrorist attack, it was the same thing, it had the same effect, no other market trades like this, nobody ever seems to explain, how come it’s gold and silver that trades like this on the downside, where you can document it, what’s happened. What we don’t understand is why the CFTC doesn’t just do time and sales and say who did the trades? And is this a pattern? IS it a concentrated attack, is it against the law, it’s not Einstein stuff, all they have to do is check the records.
VC: Now Bill, every time the price moves up and down, do you always attribute it to manipulation? Or how do we know when there’s actually natural price movements’ happening?
BM: Well that’s a good question, because a lot of people might say, well every time it goes down, it’s the gold cartel, and when it goes up, it’s not – and that’s a fair thing to say. [laughs] But the irony is, a lot of times, because gold is probably priced at half of what it should be, a lot of the time it’s their instigation. For example they’ll stop it at 3 AM New York time. They’ve done that oh – 10 out of 12 days in a recent during period, where they would start it down. Or what happens is – they’ll hit the markets, and then they get everyone else to sell, and maybe they can cover. So they’re there and we document all the time, a great deal of it. Of course it’s not always them, but they do more than their share of stopping the market and that’s why gold is so undervalued today.
VC: I’ve seen you say many times that ‘no market operates like this.’ Can you clarify what you mean by that?
BM: Yes, what other market trades like gold has – whether It’s no follow through, whether it’s flash crash attacks, whether it’s counter intuitive. Perfect example is, the quantitative easing we’ve had in the past year. All other markets did what you’d expect – the stock market went up, the oil price went up, the euro went up, Japan did quantitative easing last year, their currency collapsed. But gold and silver instead of going up since last early October, about a year ago, instead of going up like everything else, the Dow goes up every day like this, the NASDAQ keeps going up and up and up – gold and silver [makes thumbs downward motion with hands] it’s so counter –intuitive. Why don’t people just use common sense? And say, look, there’s a dichotomy here – what’s going on? GATA explains it, that’s what we do.
VC: Now Bill, you’ve mentioned that the gold cabal, according to you, is running out of physical supply to distort the market. Why do you think that and what will happen if they do run out of gold supplies – what will it mean for precious metals?
DM: Well, as far as we’re concerned that’s the key to the market. You know, they can’t just attack it in the paper market, and the futures market, they’ve got to use physical gold, physical silver to meet demand. Every day there’s a PM fix in London which 90% of the business is priced on a daily basis – so it’s not phantom, just paper trades, they have to use supply and we believe – whether it’s gold for example, people are having a hard time explaining China almost taking up all of the gold supply produced over a year period – why isn’t the price going way up, why is it getting killed? Well, we believe it’s coming from Central Banks, surreptitiously hitting the market, to get the price down. And at some point they’re just going to run out of it, all they can do to keep it there. It happened in 2001 when the price was at $300. GATA determined that they were using Central Bank Gold, which was not being disclosed, and they wouldn’t be able to keep it down there, there was too much demand, that’s what is going to happen again here, and we think it’s going to set off much higher prices over the next year, next month’s even.
VC: So you are extremely bullish right now – on the coming price movement in gold that you see happening.
BM: I think so, you know were at the Silver Summit, and I think the same thing is true in Silver – I think that they borrowed supply from the future. Last year for example, there was all kind of premiums, and nobody could explain it. I mean it looked like the market at $32 was going to take off, and everyone was reporting the same thing. I have a theory that – it’s just a theory- that [JP] Morgan went out and tied up all the supply, created the premiums, and then we heavily short by buying puts in the futures market, loaded up on the shorts side this year, beginning of this year, dropped the price from $35 to $32 and then went down to $18. I think that supply has been used up. And it’s just a guess but I think that the real surprise this year is that gold and silver, and especially silver, explodes out of nowhere.
VC: Speaking of Silver, the CFTC just closed a long drawn out investigation into silver. What happened there?
BM: Well, from GATA’s standpoint, we’ve been citing JP Morgan for years as the major culprit, everyone knows that they’d been the major short, and there was evidence provided against them to the CFTC and what they were doing in advance. Basically, the long story short, JP Morgan, the justice department is investigating JP Morgan in six different areas. Now, all of a sudden they stop the silver investigation – so almost the only thing they are not going after Morgan for is SILVER. What we think happened is that they did the investigation and they found out that one of the people behind it is the US government – it’s their own boss. So what are you going to do? An in terms of the exchange stabilization fund is allowed to do this and work in secret and only report to the Treasury and to the President on what they are doing, Now this is on the Treasury website, GATA is not making this up, they can do it in secret, and we believe that is what they have been doing, in conjunction with Morgan and some other people, and that’s what the investigation showed. Now what are you going to do? Go after your own boss? [laughs]
VC: So you think that they missed anything?
BM: No I think that they just found out that it was the US government and they just said, that they’re allowed to do this in secret, as per the exchange stabilization fund, which is stated on their own website, and so, what are they going to do?
VC: Bill, is there anything that could convince you that there wasn’t any manipulation or intervention happening in the precious metals prices? I know a lot of people have maybe attempted to convince you.
BM: Well, we’ve been doing it for 15 years, and as my colleague Chris Powell says, we are a fact finding organization. We’ve put 15 years’ worth of facts that all add up to the same thing. And even if people don’t want to believe GATA, I mean we are going up against the richest, most powerful people in the world. We know what we’re up against. It all comes down to the same thing – just common sense of what gold and silver have been doing this year compared to all other markets. And if you just did that you would think – something is not right here. And GATA has identified what’s not right.
VC: So Bill, what do you think the real price of gold and silver should be, today?
BM: Well it’s interesting, a couple of years ago, you heard a lot of people saying that if gold had kept up with inflation, it would have been $2,500/oz. That was a couple of years ago, for some reason nobody is talking about that anymore. But basically it suggests that gold is at about half of where it should be today, if it just had kept up with inflation. Not taking into account all of the quantitative easing and everything else that’s going on.
VC: So do you have a specific number in mind?
BM: Yeah, it would be about $2,500-2,600 right now. Now Silver, was up to $50 just a couple of years ago, and there was a lot of conjecture why it got there. I’m a big fan of Eric Sprotts, and Eric thinks that silver is going to $100, at least. And I think Eric’s going to be right in the next year or too.
VC: When I interviewed him recently, he said $2,400 gold by next year.
BM: Go Eric!
VC: Now, do you see many people coming around to your perspective? How hard is it for you to convince people?
BC. Well, it was like pulling teeth, and now it’s like pulling less teeth. But with all that’s happened, especially with these flash crash, waterfall attacks, more people are starting to come around our way. You’re seeing a lot more talk about it, at least on the internet. The mainstream media still won’t allow GATA to be mentioned although Bernie Lowe was gracious and had Chris Powell on over in Hong Kong, Bernie is a great guy. But basically the truth is not allowed to be told, and that’s really scary. Even if you disagree with GATA, we’ve earned the right with all we’ve done and all of the conferences we’ve had, to be heard. And certainly the people who have spoken at our conferences are some of the biggest names in the business and some of the classiest people.
VC: Just allow the dialogue to occur.
BM: Allow the dialogue- just like this!
VC: Now Bill, you think the cabal is going after long term metal holders now, what is the strategy there?
BM: Well, what we can say is the fact that gold, as a result of their attacks, and collapsing $500, big investors, pensions funds, and so on, people that have been investing in the gold ETFs, have all been selling and dumping it like 6-700 tons of gold. Well the bad guys, as we would call them, knew exactly what they were doing, as the price cratered down. Now why? Because it’s especially tough now because money managers have to compete against rising stock markets, other investments that are all doing well – gold and silver are getting killed so their relative performance stinks! So because they all work in synch on things, they are being forced to sell, and that’s exactly that the gold cartel expected and we believe, and other people have talked about this, gold is being taken from them and put in the market place or being shipped over to Asia and elsewhere.
VC: Bill we have a question from one of our viewers, from Eddie Drysdale, he’s COMEX in danger of running out of inventory, and if it does, could we see a crash in the gold ETF?
BM: Well, the gold ETF is a bit different from the COMEX inventory. What we can say is that COMEX inventories have really been drawn down. And what we believe the key to gold taking off again is the physical market over-powering the ability of the gold cartel to do what they are doing. And I think with the negative interest rates we are seeing, with inventories disappearing, China taking up all the gold, they’re going to hit the wall sometime in the not too distant future, and that is what is going to fuel the price of gold higher, and silver could be explosive, because they’ve borrowed from future supply, used it, and it’s all of a sudden not going to be there.
VC: Bill Murphy, live at the Silver Summit. Silver could be explosive, it was great having you here with us today, and we look forward to having you back again soon.
BM: Vanessa, it’s my pleasure, thank you, it was great.